Monday, August 18, 2008

"I don't know if you want to know, but..."

I hate hearing things that start this way. Well, that's not fair. I just cringe when I hear that opening. The problem is that sometimes I do want to know and other times I don't. The only way to tell is to hear it, unfortunately. Then, after I decide that it's something I didn't want to hear, it's pretty easy to just go back in time to let the person telling me this story know that he can go merrily upon his way without letting me be any the wiser.

So I don't actually intend for every other post on this blog to be about her. It just ends up that way - probably because she's still about the only thing that can really motivate me to have something to say, write it up, and then post it. I think this one's going up because I at least half-hope she'll read it. I don't know if she'll want to read it, but...well, she can always go back in time to tell herself how stupid of an idea it is if she finds out later that she didn't.

So the rest of the story was, "...she called me last night." At this point I shrug. What does it matter to me if she calls people? It's something she does frequently. I know it. Heck, I encouraged it. Both in her and in the people I know. I have a lot of good friends. I could still be a good friend if it weren't for the fact that my heart is still so sunk into her that I couldn't *ONLY* be a friend. It's the largest single reason why I enforce a separation between us, no matter why she thinks it is that I don't want anything to do with her. Anyway, like I said, I have a lot of good friends and I couldn't see any good reason for her not to be friends with them too. They all know not to invite us to the same events, so it's fine.

"She was in an accident last night." Oh. Now I start to feel bad about the shrug. It's not that I don't care. Quite the opposite. I think it's fair to say that I care more about her than I ever have about any person ever. That's present tense - I *still* care for her more than I ever *have* cared for any person ever. That says a lot, both about how I still feel for her, and also about the general apathy towards people that I seem to continually find myself in. It's not like I don't live with this huge list of things I know need improvement.

For a long time, I've tossed around scenarios in my head. What would happen if one of us were to die? Would the other be invited to the funeral? Would the other *GO*? Would the other have anything to say? Stupid stuff like that. Personally, I don't care what she would choose to do. I mean, I don't care who wants to come to my funeral or what their reasons are. By the time such decisions have to be made, I'll be beyond the point of caring. Hopefully someone would let her know (I can think of at least 2 who would make a point to), and hopefully someone would let her know she's welcome to come (since I've never talked with this to anyone, I don't know if that'd happen or not). Would I go to hers? I don't know. Thankfully that's not a decision I have to make this morning.

"Was it anything serious?" "A few broken bones, I think her pelvis and spine were damaged, but the doctors said it wasn't anything weight-bearing so there shouldn't be any permanent damage." Well, that's a relief. I mean, it's not as if our relationship ended on what can be termed a "happy" note, but I certainly don't wish her ill. I don't know if she's still the same person I fell in love with, but I know I'm not the same person she did.

Anyway, having that conversation this morning with a friend as he picks up his laptop to head to Michigan to start another school year...a bit surreal. To her, I say "Get better." Maybe more to write will come later.


JadeGordon said...

We may not be on the best of terms ATM (and me being loud about my opinions may not be the easiest thing ever). I don't feel any less for you (I am true to my word for how I feel about you), but this post causes me to loose a lot of respect for you, and I feel I should tell you why.

Of course you're not the same people you were like, 4 years ago. People change, things change, life is ever shifting. You won't know who she is if you don't ask her.

Don't pretend like Lisa is not there when she calls you, messages you, or tries to come see you. Stop saying "her" like you're a child year old with a grudge - is she really not worthy of enough respect to be more than an object to you? Saying that you love Lisa, and care about her wellbeing, but that you won't communicate with her unless she will be your wife is selfish and stupid. She is free to make her own choices, if you honestly cared about Lisa enough to call it love, you would care about what's best for her, and what she wants, and what makes her happy. You would not forsake a promise just because you don't get what you want out of it.

She's lying in a hospital bed with broken bones, if this promise you say you made to her, and to your god about caring for her forever-no-matter-what was sincere, go see her, call her, DO something. She may have a family and a fiancé, but I'm sure she could use a friend, and some support and even more extra hands. It's not about you. Your first reaction should have been "That's terrible news! What can I do to help?"

Yes, it still hurts that it didn't work out the way you dreamed it would, and it REALLY bites when someone you care for does things you think are stupid, scary, selfish, or dangerous. It sucks, a lot and hard. It's been a couple of years now - learn, grow! I'm tired of you making excuses to detach from people. CARE about and for this (or any) PERSON your god made for you to treasure in this lifetime (which is all of them, no?)! Maybe it's not what you thought it was supposed to be, but maybe there's a higher plan. I'm quite sure that grand plan isn't about playing games of "I know you're there, but I pretend like don't see-e-e-e you!"

"Love" and "Friendship" are worth so much more than how you're treating them.

TurboNed said...

I don't use her name to make some attempt to protect her anonymity.

JadeGordon said...

You still say "her" in IM and such as well. SO make up another name. A title. Just not a faceless object.

TurboNed said...

Honestly, I had forgotten that I had ever told you her name and was continuing to do the anonymity thing. I've used her name in countless conversations with other people in the recent past.

JadeGordon said...

You forgot I knew...? Even after bringing her onto vent, mentioning her over vent by name to the Fantastic Four while we were partied, me pointing out how weird a coincidence it was to now have a married couple named "Brian and Lisa" around? ...


TurboNed said...

I brought her onto vent, what, 4 years ago? Yeah. I actually DON'T remember who all was present for that (or many other things). And I usually try to avoid mentioning real names over Vent, so after a certain point, I started referring to her anonymously in this blog and only recently did I realize/remember that you knew her name and didn't think much about it.

I don't think of you as Jade, I think of you as Ramoona. It's the identity I'm most familiar with you as. I differentiate between you and that character (not that there's a whole lot of difference anyway, though I suspect she's better with a bow than you are...) When speaking in the online realm, I tend to default to anonymous identities - both for myself and for the people I may talk about.

Regardless, I find it interesting that an awful lot of the resentment (perhaps that's not the right word?) you hold towards me as of late stems from motives you attribute to me when those motives simply aren't there.

And last, but certainly not least, you're right. After bouncing the idea off of a couple of people (who have a much clearer perspective than you, I hope you don't take it personally, but there's a lot of stuff that's happened that I haven't shared with you), they agreed and I gave it a second (or fifth?) thought and will get in touch with her. Not going to visit (it would only end in tears), and not going to call (we'd both wish I hadn't by the end), but yes. To act like nothing's changed and that I don't know/don't care is insensitive at best, spiteful and/or malicious at worst.

JadeGordon said...

I'm very different given the name that shows up on screen at any given time? :O When given time to warm up, I wasn't terrible with a bow, but given the arthritis and numbness in my left hand, it's likely not the safest sport these days.

I tend to go with screen names, or something similar until those people say otherwise. Zillia was known as my "Muse" for a long time, until she finally said she was OK with anyone anywhere knowing who she was in relation to me. Then I went with "Dove", and the only time I vary is if people only knew her by an online ID.

Not so much resentment as frustration. If those motives aren't there, then perhaps communication could improve?

From what you've told me, I can't imagine still that she's done something SO horrible and outrageous that a few years later you couldn't talk to her without it being overly dramatic. It took a couple of years after the divorce for my ex and I to settle down. We can now spend entire days together without any drama at all. I would guess he and I did things to each other that neither of you would ever touch in a million years - Life goes on.

But perhaps baby steps is a good start!

TurboNed said...

Let's just go with "My reasons for staying out of contact have more to do with myself and EVERYONE ELSE who're "in the know" on the situation agreeing that unless something drastic changes (and they'll let me know) this is the best thing for both of us." I *WANT* desperately to call her, and I've wanted that for quite some time. But I also can picture it being nice for a short time and then quickly turning into the sort of pain that we've both already been through and separated to stop.

S. Soden said...

Interesting thoughts posted here. It was enlightening to read some of what is going on in the elusive mind of 'turboned.' Having followed this situation from very nearly the beginning and having been clued in to the feelings of both parties, I applaud you for your ability to stay out of the picture at this point. I also greatly respect the ability you possess to stay out of 'her' life. I feel it is a completely responsible and upstanding thing to do in your situation. She has made her choices, and you've had very few choices to make in the situation. You've made the only decision you could make to hold on to some semblance of order and control in your life. I can't even imagine how hard it is to stay home and out of her life, as I know how you feel, even if you hide it so aptly. I would not be able to do the same in this case, and I do believe that deep down you make a lot of these choices because you do want what is best for the other person, or people, involved in this situation. For you to show up now would create a confusion that we both know would grow a life of its own and would not subside for at least a year. Probably more. As you've said, there is so much people don't know. Don't let yourself feel any guilt for the things people feel you should do--no one knows the situation as you do and no one knows the depth of hurt and feelings involved. Nobody could ever understand. My props to you for being able to stay out of the situation, esp. since I understand that you want to be there. And I understand why you can't communicate that, as it only opens you up for more hurt. It's easier not to want it. I get that.

Sydney said...

Oh, my! For a minute there, it was like a cat-and-dog fight. :P I don't really know squat about all that's been going on, but I would say really pray about it and if she's not the one you're supposed to be with, let her go. Give her up to God, forgive and move on. Seek the counsel of older (and wiser) people that you hold in high your parents or someone in your church (if you go). You must have many reasons for breaking up with those motives, if you still feel like you kind of want to be with her. Don't let this situation take you away from living life and most importantly, don't let it destroy your relationship with God. I shall be praying for you as you walk through this challenging part of life. Let Him speak to you as to what you should do, whether you should call her or not, etc. If you want to treat in a Christ-like-loving way, read and digest 1 Corinthians 13...see what Paul has to say on treating people with true agape kind of love. Treat her that way, whether it's reciprocated or not.

Shalom! :-)

"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of god, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." ~Philippians 4:6-7

TurboNed said...

I thank you all for your input. From this point out, however, I'm not really looking for "advice" or "suggestions" or "you may want to consider doing this" sort of comments when it comes to Lisa. There are a few people from whom I'm happy to get those comments, and those are people who understand the situation. They know who they are. They're the people from whom I specifically seek out advice. The rest of you...are simply going to have to live knowing that you don't and won't know the whole of the story. It's not my story to tell.

You don't know why we broke up. You don't know which of us broke up with the other. You don't know if the reason is still valid. You don't know how either of us will react to a renewed relationship. You can argue that I don't know some of these things either...but you can rest assured knowing that I have a better idea than you do.

I appreciate what you're all trying to do. I really do. But uninformed advice is REALLY not useful. This is the point where I would lock the thread, if this were a forum where thread locking were possible. Thank you all.

As a side-note, if you want to give your opinion about how much of an idiot I'm being, how much you've lost respect for me, or how much I make you angry - THOSE comments are still welcome. I don't ignore them. But advice about this relationship just makes me beat my head against the desk thinking, "Yup, that'd be great advice if I were in a situation that mirrored 85% of the relationships I've seen in a similar state. But I'm not. And as much as I'd like to think that it's just me thinking I'm sooo unique when really I'm going through the same thing that EVERY person goes through in relationship-development through life...I've seen enough evidence and heard enough testimony from other people to convince me that my situation really *IS* unique."

Yes, I think all that as I beat my head against the desk.

sydney said...

Don't worry, I don't think ill of you. I understand what you mean...just forget what I said. :-)


sydney said...

I had wondered where you had gone...glad to see you're still on planet earth.

God bless!